Episode 4: Michelle Murphy on Becoming an Interviewer

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Chet Tschetter

Hi, my name is Chet Tschetter, and I'll be your host for a closer look, where we'll explore the most current and relevant topics covered in frontline initiative, which is a magazine produced by the National Alliance for Direct Support Professionals in partnership with the University of Minnesota's Institute of Community Integration. If you're wondering what Frontline initiative is all about, it's about the work that direct support professionals do on a day to day basis as they support people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.

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Chet Tschetter

I'll be talking to authors and taking a closer look at current practices, tools, and resources. So buckle up and let's hear what the authors have to say.

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Chet Tschetter

Today I get the opportunity to talk with Michelle Murphy. My coeditor, Julie Creamy, had the opportunity to interview Michelle a few months ago. From that interview came an article in the last edition of Frontline Initiative, which was focused on DSPs using the Code of Ethics. The article was called Ethical Practice is about learning side by side with the person supported.

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Chet Tschetter

Let's get started talking with Michelle about that article. Welcome, Michelle. We're so happy to have you here today. On a closer look. Please tell us a little bit about yourself and one fun fact.

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Michelle Murphy

Hello, Chet. Thanks so much for having me here today. My name is Michelle Murphy. I'm with the Arc Mid-Hudson in the lovely Hudson Valley and New York State. I am a DSP certified first. I've been a DSP for about 19 years, and it's a job I've always loved. I left it and came back to it because I liked it so much.

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Chet Tschetter

It's so brilliant.

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Michelle Murphy

Right. That's kind of nice. My sister is a person who receives supports at a provider organization, and she's the person who referred me to the job initially. She told me, I know you don't like your job. And I was, like, wearing a suit to work, pushing paper. She said, I know you don't like working with all that paper.

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Michelle Murphy

Why don't you come work where I work? She worked in the workshop at the time, and, I don't know, she. I guess she just saw something in me, and it turned out to be my claim to fame. I ended up working here. This organization, because the person who trained me said, get out of what you're doing.

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Michelle Murphy

Come back.

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Michelle Murphy

So I did like. All right, I mean, easy sounds good.

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Michelle Murphy

I just wanted to find the work that really meant something to me, that fed my soul and made me feel like I was making a difference somewhere, rather than just kind of running the rat race and pushing around paper and helping people manage their wealth. I wanted to find my wealth, whether that was a whole pile of money or something else.

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Michelle Murphy

Sometimes we.

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Michelle Murphy

Find one, sometimes.

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Michelle Murphy

We find the other, you know? You know.

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Michelle Murphy

I'm also the local administrator for the E Badge Academy here in our organization. It's, I don't know that it's a highly sought after position.

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Michelle Murphy

But that I truly value.

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Michelle Murphy

And I really enjoy. I'm also a certified DSP, and I'm in the program now. I'm in the micro credentialing program. I went back to college after 20 something years, which is daunting, and I bit off a little more than I can chew. So it's a.

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Michelle Murphy

Little stressful to say the.

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Michelle Murphy

Least, but I made it through this first semester back. I'm going to end up with nine credits and DSP two certification, so that's exciting. I still work as a DSP on call.

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Chet Tschetter

That's fantastic. Yeah, what a career. And good for you for making a career change and trying something else that would would really feel, fill your soul, right?

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Michelle Murphy

Right. Yeah. You know, there was.

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Michelle Murphy

A little piece of it that was like desperation. You got to make money. We have to be out there making money one way or another. So I wanted to do it in a way that meant something to me and to my family. And then I thought I could see myself doing it for the long haul. There are a lot of people that told me never.

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Michelle Murphy

You're never going to make the money in that field. You should go do something else so you can actually make good money. And I thought, well, if money is the only thing I'm after, I could do anything there is, you know, so I might as well make it meaningful. And so there's always overtime to be.

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Chet Tschetter

Had, right? Right. And I love that you come with the perspective of a family member. And that must just really go a long way in, in how you, how you do your work, but also how you interact with, other DSPs, because I believe you do some training with new DSPs in their role to help them understand really from that human perspective, how important the work is that they do.

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Michelle Murphy

Yeah. And I'll tell you, Chet, the majority of people that I meet that come in as new hires or that are here and working with us that I'm training and, strategies for crisis intervention and prevention or CPR or even in the airbag Academy. There are people with a lot of, personal experience as well. You're hard pressed to go out into your own community and not find a person that has a different ability.

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Michelle Murphy

Right.

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Michelle Murphy

Whether it's on paper or not. And I think that the people that we find, the people that are drawn to this field, are like minded and like hearted, and they have some similar experience, if not a little more individualistic and different.

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Chet Tschetter

Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about the article that you wrote for Frontline Initiative. And it was in the last edition which was called direct Support professionals using the NDS. P so that's the National Alliance for Direct Support Professionals Code of Ethics, which is a document that's been around for several years. And, it has nine, different tenets in it.

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Chet Tschetter

And when you look at that issue of the frontline initiative, you'll see that we've got different examples, different stories and articles and some videos connected to each one of those, tenets. The tenet that you wrote about really had to do with social justice and, those sorts of things. So why don't you tell us a little bit about the article you wrote?

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Chet Tschetter

I know that there was questions about language and, how someone was using it. A person supported, and how you kind of worked with that situation.

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Michelle Murphy

Yeah. I'll tell you what. It was a challenge to write the article and find the correct words. It was a challenge to find the right words. Even when I was having the conversation with the person. And it happened over time. I'll start, and I'll probably end with that piece that occurred over time. So I worked in a group home environment as a DSP, and the person I supported was a woman of color, and she often identified herself and other people of color as quote unquote, colored people.

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Michelle Murphy

And she was, you know, born in the end of the 50s and raised in the 60s and, you know, grew up around that time frame, that I did not I'm a bit younger. I was born and at the end of the 70s and, you know, grew up in the 80s. So, I was shocked the first time I heard it and I thought, oh, that's interesting,

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Michelle Murphy

It made me just start to think about this person's perspective. Maybe I started to kind of ask questions here and there about when the person grew up and, you know, things like, what kind of music did the person listen to? What kind of clothing did they wear? Where did they live? Where did they go to school? What did they do for fun?

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Michelle Murphy

Like all the things that you want to learn about the people that you're supporting, and to find out who they are as a human? But also dialog like that is hard to come by in a time when, wokeness is not the most accepted thing. And if you're not quite saying things correctly or appropriately or understanding things correctly or appropriately, you may be caught off guard in social situations or you can offend somebody.

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Michelle Murphy

And so I wanted to help this person to understand. While I learned as well.

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Chet Tschetter

Yeah, I was going to ask, when you say wokeness, could you explain what that means?

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Michelle Murphy

Oh, to me, wokeness means that your of of the mindset that appreciates and understands different people who they are and how they identify themselves outside of oppressive language, outside of social stigma or social oppression or discrimination. And so, applying terminology that's, you know, not outdated is, to me, a more woke concept. Sure. So, you know, considering who the person is and how they prefer to be identified, who and how they I, you know, how they identify themselves culturally, personally, sexually, physically.

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Michelle Murphy

However, it is. And finding that out before you apply generalized terms to people, I think it's similar in the way that our organizations identify themselves as well. So I work for a provider organization called the Arc. It was not always called the Arc. This organization was termed the acronym HRC, which stands for the R word it right smack in the middle of it, identifying a population of people that have been oppressed and could be offended by that word.

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Michelle Murphy

So when we knew better, we did better. And, you know, the arc us said, we've got to rebrand if we're going to represent people, we should use updated terminology that does not oppress them. I think that's a first step in respect. So if I was going to respect this woman who I supported, who I care for very much, I got along with her very well.

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Michelle Murphy

We had a lot of fun. It was also extremely challenging at times, you know, as it is with humans. But when she identified herself in that way, I thought, there's a way we can do this better. I wonder how I'm going to do that. Is it my job to change her mind? And who am I to say you shouldn't say those words.

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Michelle Murphy

You could offend somebody else, right?

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Michelle Murphy

And you just.

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Chet Tschetter

It made you uncomfortable, but it didn't make her uncomfortable. So kind of figuring out what to do with that.

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Michelle Murphy

Right? So I just started talking because that's what I do.

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Michelle Murphy

I talk a lot.

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Michelle Murphy

But there was also another woman that was at the table with us, another person offering support, who was a woman of color. And I thought, all right, I'm going to leave this with you. I, you know, like, what have we got? And she kind of looked at me and we both kind of approached it together, but I just I had the conversation and I started it and I said, well, how does that make you feel?

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Michelle Murphy

What do you think about those words? Is there anybody that you think might ever be upset to hear that? Or, you know, did anybody ever call you that? And you were upset about it? And, you know, the conversation kind of went from there. And it wasn't so bad. You know, she didn't necessarily shut me down. I had to gauge understanding as well.

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Michelle Murphy

And so it wasn't just that one conversation. It kind of happened a couple of times like over time. And I had to like try the words out first before they came out of my mouth. Just so I didn't say things wrong. And I came from the right perspective, I wanted to, I wanted this to be a teaching moment rather than.

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Michelle Murphy

And a learning unlearning moment.

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Chet Tschetter

Yeah, absolutely. Learning where she's coming from and and being sensitive as a white person. Who are who are you to ask that question? Right. There had to be some humbling with with that. And how do I how do I approach this in the most sensitive and supportive way?

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Michelle Murphy

Absolutely. When you think about, you know, I talk about social stigma sometimes and how it's applied to people that we support, people with intellectual and developmental disability in classes. And I asked the people like, well, what kind of stigmas attached to this? There's these labels that people are carrying around with them. You need the label to get certain kinds of health care.

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Michelle Murphy

You need a diagnosis or a label to get social services. Well, is it, you know, where does that stop? What else does the label do for you? What else does a label do to you when you you kind of section yourself out from other people? And how do you get back to the commonalities that you have with other people in your own community?

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Michelle Murphy

And the stigma basically says it. Well, these people that are receiving services are just kind of leeching off of the social system and not contributing to society. And I find that to be a gross misrepresentation, because the people I support certainly are contributing to their society and their communities. They just need the opportunity to have visibility.

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Michelle Murphy

The way that they want to have it and be part of conversations that they have not been historically part of.

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Chet Tschetter

Right. Yeah. So when you started having that conversation, with her and the other person, how how was that received? And I guess one thing before I even ask that question is, I would imagine you really had to and, and you wanted to build some real relationship with her. Before you even had that conversation. It also sounds like you did a little research.

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Michelle Murphy

Yeah. I took to the interwebs. I made sure that I was, you know, getting the information I needed to say things correctly. I talked to people that I knew and said, what do you think about this conversation? And I came to the conclusion that I needed to have the I needed to talk about it, and it was okay for me to talk about it in my role.

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Michelle Murphy

And part of my obligation was to help, to equip this person and prepare them to be in their community and be safe and healthy. And if that meant, educating them on, more contemporary language or better ways to communicate with people in their community, then that worked. So if they're just seen as people that are not really talking to anyone behind counters or walking on the street or in social groups, they're just being spoken for by their direct support professionals or whoever their representatives are.

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Michelle Murphy

Then the person doesn't have any autonomy, right? And that tells me that the person's self-image is just based on somebody else's expectation or somebody else's view of them, rather than figuring out what the person's view is of herself. And I thought, all right, do you see yourself this way? And what does that look like for you? You know, how do you feel about these words?

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Michelle Murphy

If someone called you that, would you feel any way about it? And she wasn't sure. And they said, all right, well, think about it. You know, I want you to consider there's another way that you can state this. You could call yourself, here's my name. My name is Annie. Or you could say, I am a woman of color.

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Michelle Murphy

Or you could say, you know, X, y, Z, whatever else felt comfortable. I said, but let's look at it together. Let's talk about it together for a minute. And she was like, okay.

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Michelle Murphy

She was sweet. Like, okay.

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Michelle Murphy

And I was like, all right.

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Chet Tschetter

And ultimately, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

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Michelle Murphy

That's right. I never heard her call herself a colored woman again. Well, I didn't hear her say the words again personally. Maybe she said it outside of my presence. I'm not sure. I didn't dive super deep into it. I just wanted to be sure to have the conversation. Something else I did was also let the other team members know.

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Michelle Murphy

This is what I said. This is how we said it, you know, think about it like these. It's not just that conversation. There are other conversations to be had. What if the person doesn't feel comfortable with the gender they were assigned? What if the person doesn't feel comfortable with the sexuality that you assume they should have? Right. So these are conversations to be had for people.

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Michelle Murphy

We're supporting people that are adults.

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Michelle Murphy

They're not.

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Michelle Murphy

Children.

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Chet Tschetter

Right. And the.

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Michelle Murphy

Children.

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Chet Tschetter

It's so important to have the conversations, especially to really get to know someone and who who they are as a person. Yeah, right. That's why that's why you got into this field as a DSP, because you wanted to get to know people and support them to to live their best life.

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Michelle Murphy

Truly. I really wanted somebody to be out there other than me to do that for my sister to no doubt.

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Chet Tschetter

No doubt. Michelle, another thing that you wrote about, in your article that I found really interesting and I would bet it happens a lot, unfortunately, you wrote about, an example of, some folks going out for ice cream on Friday night and it's people supported with their with their staff members. And, what you learned during your conversation with someone was that they didn't really like the mint chocolate chip ice cream that was ordered for them each time they went out, but they didn't want to say anything because they didn't want to make waves.

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Chet Tschetter

Talk more about this. And what suggestions do you have for DSPs who are supporting people to make their own decisions?

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Michelle Murphy

My suggestion, my number one suggestion for DSPs is to get to know each individual person and ask the questions. What's your favorite flavor of ice cream? What kind of music do you like to listen to? What are your favorite movies? And if they don't have answers, then it might be time to just start diving in and saying, well, let's try a.

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Michelle Murphy

Couple.

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Michelle Murphy

Like, do you like horror films? Do you like comedy? Do you like action? Let's go out to the movies. Let's rent some movies from the red box outside the grocery store. If they still have those, I don't even know.

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Michelle Murphy

Why.

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Chet Tschetter

They do.

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Michelle Murphy

So maybe she.

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Michelle Murphy

Took her young children to the mall to go watch a movie, and they said, what's a.

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Michelle Murphy

Mall? Sure. I was like, no, what's happening in society?

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Chet Tschetter

Times are changing.

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Michelle Murphy

Oh no. Like the mall.

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Michelle Murphy

Just asked the question. So I became an an interviewer for an organization called Council on Quality and Leadership, and they're an organization that you invite in and they kind of help you pull apart everything that you're doing as an organization to see where you can do better, you know, help us, you know, our eyes and cross our t's.

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Michelle Murphy

And as that interviewer, I had to go out and kind of invite myself to people's dining tables for a cup of tea or something and say, I've got 47 questions to ask you on this list, but I'm going to make it into a conversation to ensure that you're receiving all the services that you require that you prefer to have.

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Michelle Murphy

You're getting where you're going. And one of the questions was, do you have the favorite flavor ice cream you want in the freezer? And do you go get it yourself or does somebody know about it? I also do ensure that people are free from abuse or neglect and understood what that meant. So there were a whole bunch of questions and this is the question that came up and the person said, yeah, we go out every Friday.

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Michelle Murphy

Everybody goes in the big van, there's a bunch of staff and everybody gets all the same ice cream, and we go together and it's great fun. And who doesn't like to go out for ice cream?

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Michelle Murphy

But she.

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Michelle Murphy

Said, I said, well, what flavor ice cream do you get. Mint chocolate chip. And I was like, put sounds.

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Michelle Murphy

I know you love it or you hate it. My least favorite flavor ever.

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Michelle Murphy

And I was like, well, have you ever tried anything else?

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Michelle Murphy

Ever? Baskin Robbins?

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Michelle Murphy

And she just said, nah, I just don't I don't want to make waves. I don't say anything. I just want to enjoy the time and not have to make anyone do any extra work. I think there's an element of when you're the person receiving services, accommodations, assistants day in and day out and being told you have a disability.

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Michelle Murphy

And this means you can't do certain things, then you're less likely to put a lot of pressure on the people that are helping you. A you don't want anybody to get an attitude with you. You don't want anybody, do not help you. You just kind of want to be sweet and kind to them, even though it might be phony sometimes just to keep things moving.

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Michelle Murphy

And while the staff are genuine and well trained and skilled and, you know, compassionate.

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Chet Tschetter

Well-intentioned, many times.

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Michelle Murphy

Absolutely. You kind of miss some things if the person is not telling you accurately. This is what's happening inside my body, in my heart, in my mind. How are you to know we don't all have a crystal ball, and it always doesn't tell us the the right information. I'm still waiting for the winning lot in the lottery numbers.

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Michelle Murphy

You know, I'm still waiting.

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Chet Tschetter

Just taking the time to ask questions, but to also listen. Yeah. Like really listen. And I really loved how you talked about people may not have, you know, the experience of having seen a bunch of different types of movies or taste of different sorts of ice creams, whatever that is. So let's give them of that experience so they know what it is, and they can make a decision.

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Chet Tschetter

And they don't have to have the same ice cream every time they go right. Why don't I get something different? Everybody wants to have those experiences.

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Michelle Murphy

Sure. And know where to find them. I think that's a key as well as part of, you know, our core competencies, but also that code of ethics that says equity. So just because things are out there and available to everyone doesn't mean everyone has access to them or knows how to access them. So I'm working with team members that are not very well versed on technology.

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Michelle Murphy

So the technology is available, but they need some education. Same with the people that I'm that I might be supporting. Yes, there are tons of opportunities and options out there, but if they don't know how to attain those choices, then it's good is not being available. I just think it's important for us to ensure that everyone knows how to get to the things that they want and as independently as they can.

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Chet Tschetter

And as DSPs. We are sometimes that vehicle for. Opening up those doors, if you will, or those windows, so that people know that there are other choices out there and feel confident to try something different or ask questions. That's that's part of our role as DSPs to do that.

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Michelle Murphy

Right. And I think it's respect, it's respecting the other person as a human, as an autonomous being, and giving people the tools that they need to just ask, you said confidence. Confidence is built over time. I'm not confidently balancing a checkbook until I've had some education on it. I've practiced it a bunch of times and I've done it well consistently.

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Michelle Murphy

Then I'm confident. So the people we're supporting, even though they're well into their adulthood, and they have a whole world of experience beyond my age range, even if you just think about the lapse of time. But their experience poor in a lot of areas.

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Michelle Murphy

Yeah. So I think I talked about decision making in different areas and that article as well when we talk about, you know consent we talk about this. So is a person able to consent for medical services, consent in sexual and sexual nature. And how do we decide whether a person can consent in one area or another. Maybe there are assessments.

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Michelle Murphy

We have educational sessions with them. Maybe it's just conversations or we're watching YouTube videos or, you know, we're using different kinds of platforms to ensure the person understands the thing we're trying to communicate with them and then give them a chance to take a risk. You know, that's sheltered enough, but gives them some independence and autonomy as well to make a mistake and to maybe fall flat on their face.

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Chet Tschetter

And that's part of the human experience, right?

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Michelle Murphy

Yeah, yeah.

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Chet Tschetter

Yeah. I support a man who, just turned 50 and he wanted to learn how to play guitar. And so, his family was able to set up, guitar lessons with, a person who, has some music therapy in their background. And after playing guitar for a while, they realized that he also really likes to sing, and he's never sang before in front of other people.

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Chet Tschetter

And so to have that experience. So almost 50 years old, to be able to say, I really enjoy singing, and doing it is really like, wow, I wish you would have had that confidence and support to do that years and years ago, but I'm so glad he has it now. Yeah, what a great way to express himself.

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Michelle Murphy

Oh for sure. And how happy, how joyful must that make him?

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Chet Tschetter

He feels really proud about that. Yeah.

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Michelle Murphy

And for nice.

00;25;02;08 - 00;25;19;12

Michelle Murphy

It just made me think about, you know, who I thought I was when I was a young person and I had certain skills or talents and then maybe, you know, abandoned those talents. Like I used to be a musician. I used to be a singer, used to be like a competitive swimmer. And then for years, I just didn't do those things.

00;25;19;14 - 00;25;19;29

Michelle Murphy

And I didn't.

00;25;19;29 - 00;25;29;25

Michelle Murphy

I didn't identify myself as a musician or an athlete anymore. Like, who am I now? And people were supporting get to go through those like seasons of life to.

00;25;29;28 - 00;26;14;19

Chet Tschetter

Absolutely. I mean, we all do. That's part of, again, the human experience and how we we want to live our lives just by having different experiences and, and, trying different things. And how do you know what you like if you never get to try it, right. Yeah, yeah. So, Michelle, any final words as we kind of wrap up here that you have for, DSPs and even frontline supervisors, when they're thinking about, you know, using the code of ethics to, to kind of guide their work, not only in this particular tenet on justice, fairness and equity, but in any of them,

00;26;14;21 - 00;26;16;26

Chet Tschetter

That was a really big question.

00;26;16;29 - 00;26;18;08

Michelle Murphy

It was a big question, I think.

00;26;18;08 - 00;26;19;24

Michelle Murphy

Kind of a decent sized answer.

00;26;20;00 - 00;26;26;06

Michelle Murphy

Right. It's I bet you do.

00;26;27;25 - 00;26;55;05

Michelle Murphy

I found my career in this field, and, I value my position as a direct support person. I value my position as an as a a leader and a trainer in the field as well. But I continue to grow and learn as best I can because I know that people change, circumstances change, our systems change, and I kind of want to be part of that change.

00;26;55;05 - 00;27;09;22

Michelle Murphy

I want to be part of that growth. And I know that the best way to do the work that I do, or to provide the services that we provide, is to continue to grow with the people that we're supporting. So if you start first with that individual, you follow this.

00;27;09;22 - 00;27;10;23

Michelle Murphy

Code.

00;27;10;26 - 00;27;41;12

Michelle Murphy

I mean, you could even follow it so loosely. I even if you follow this code, baseline, just assignments every day just to get by a person has a decent quality of life. But I found that it was so rewarding when I really pushed myself a bit. When I really pushed the card, I tried to make a little change here and there and just baby steps the same way that we do, you know, life plans or, you know, reaching any goal really break it down into like bite size pieces that are manageable.

00;27;41;14 - 00;28;12;27

Michelle Murphy

You can be really successful and feel like you made a difference in a person's life. I also would want to warn people to not attach their success to another person's success, in that the plans that are made with people receiving support do not indicate whether you're doing a great job or not. You know, if the person you supported chat did not discover that they were a singer or, you know, gave up on the guitar after the first lesson, it doesn't mean that you failed.

00;28;13;00 - 00;28;17;13

Michelle Murphy

It means that the person decided and I tried it. Thanks for the chance. Let's try something different.

00;28;18;10 - 00;28;35;13

Michelle Murphy

You know, I want I want to encourage people to not be discouraged when they don't see leaps and bounds of progress immediately, because we live in a culture of bigger, better, faster. I need it now. I needed it yesterday. You know, that instant gratification of things like Netflix and.

00;28;35;16 - 00;28;36;14

Michelle Murphy

YouTube.

00;28;36;16 - 00;28;39;01

Michelle Murphy

Like, I don't know, go find the mall.

00;28;39;04 - 00;28;45;13

Michelle Murphy

Go walk around.

00;28;45;15 - 00;29;01;03

Michelle Murphy

Really take the time to discover who you are as a professional and how you can lend to the services and, improve that quality of life of the person supported. And I think that can be done in an a million ways. It just starts with the human.

00;29;01;06 - 00;29;16;10

Chet Tschetter

Absolutely right. We're all here about the people we support and how to help them live the life they want to live, try things they want to try. And that helps us be better humans.

00;29;16;12 - 00;29;41;00

Michelle Murphy

Absolutely. Yeah. I think at the end of the day, when you've given a person respect and attention, you've listened and they know that you're genuine and that they can count on you. I think that's that's enough that that can help you. It can help guide you through some of the most difficult choices and decisions that people make.

00;29;41;02 - 00;30;08;12

Michelle Murphy

Like, let's say one doctor says that this surgery on your your c spine can save your life. Another doctor says you won't survive the recovery. And so then you look at this individual getting these these diagnoses or these prognoses and saying, what do you want to do? And then you have to listen to the person whether you agree with it or not.

00;30;08;14 - 00;30;23;05

Michelle Murphy

You know, that's a big decision. If you're just was just leading by, you know, looking for a textbook that's a textbook definition or a code that says, here's our rule book right here. It's not going to be good for every individual person. It just doesn't work that way.

00;30;23;12 - 00;30;44;11

Chet Tschetter

Right. The code of ethics are a guide. And, they're not going to answer every question. They're just going to help guide you along. I also really love, you know, collaborating with other DSPs and, and, you know, getting some other input and another point of view, that can be really, really helpful when supporting people.

00;30;44;14 - 00;30;46;13

Michelle Murphy

Absolutely.

00;30;46;16 - 00;30;53;09

Chet Tschetter

All right, Michelle, this has been fantastic. I can't wait to have you back again sometime. So you're going to have to write another article.

00;30;53;11 - 00;30;57;16

Michelle Murphy

Oh.

00;30;57;18 - 00;31;05;02

Michelle Murphy

Oh, no, I can't wait.

00;31;05;04 - 00;31;25;13

Chet Tschetter

But we are so thankful for you, Michelle, for the work that you do, for the joy that you are and for the joy that you bring. Those people that you are supporting. And, also, you know, supporting as coworkers and, and DSPs and getting, trained on how to do their job. So thank you for all of that.

00;31;25;16 - 00;31;40;25

Michelle Murphy

Thank you so much. That's so lovely to hear. I appreciate those kind words. Chat. And it's a pleasure to talk with you and to work with, you and Julie and the team at the University of Minnesota. Thank you for the work that you are doing. We have to do it together. That's what makes a movement, right?

00;31;41;02 - 00;31;53;07

Michelle Murphy

I, together with the same idea. I'm happy to write more articles. Listen, we all have so many stories to tell, and important stories that we can learn from.

00;31;53;09 - 00;31;56;24

Chet Tschetter

Yeah, I can't wait. All right. Thank you so much, Michel.

00;31;56;26 - 00;32;09;11

Michelle Murphy

Thank you for.