Episode 3: Zoe Korengold from Lionsgate Academy in Shoreview, Minnesota on supporting students' psychological health and wellness

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Chet Tschetter

Hi, my name is Chet Tschetter, and I'll be your host for a closer look, where we'll explore the most current and relevant topics covered in frontline initiative, which is a magazine produced by the National Alliance for Direct Support Professionals in partnership with the University of Minnesota's Institute of Community Integration. If you're wondering what Frontline initiative is all about, it's about the work that direct support professionals do on a day to day basis as they support people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.

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Chet Tschetter

I'll be talking to authors and taking a closer look at current practices, tools, and resources. So buckle up and let's hear what the authors have to say.

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Chet Tschetter

Today I'm going to be talking with Zoe Korengold. I got to interview Zoe for their article called Supporting Students Psychological Health and Wellness. In that interview, Zoe reflected on how they handle situations with students who are experiencing big emotions that sometimes get challenging. Zoe not only talks about how important the training is that she and her teammates got, but also the teamwork that helps them and their coworkers provide a safe situation for everybody.

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Chet Tschetter

When things do get challenging at work. So let's get started.

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Zoe Korengold

Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

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Chet Tschetter

We're thrilled to have you. Some of the listeners may be wondering if an educational assistant is the same as a direct support professional. And I'm going to suggest that we think that think of it in terms of direct support professionals working in different areas of the lives of people with intellectual disabilities. So let's think of educational assistants as doing the same sort of work as DSPs, just in an educational setting, just like job, job coaches or employment specialists are working to help people in vocational settings.

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Chet Tschetter

And we do know that many DSPs or direct support workers support people in their homes or in their social lives. So, Zoe, can you tell the listeners a little bit about you and the work that you do at Lionsgate Academy?

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Zoe Korengold

Yeah. So I am non-binary. I'm autistic. And, I'm on the support response team and crisis team at Lionsgate Academy in Shoreview. It's my dream job. I love what I do every day, and I love the kids that I'm around. It's a real honor to be with them. And it's also a real honor to be around team members that have been on the crisis team for years, some of them over a decade.

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Zoe Korengold

And to be able to learn from them and call them my mentors is like a real honor in my life.

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Chet Tschetter

So, yeah, that sounds really cool. How many years have you been at Lionsgate?

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Zoe Korengold

Yeah. So, I started on the SRT team in crisis Team this last year. Coming into September, this will be my third year at Lionsgate.

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Chet Tschetter

And just to be clear, the SRT is the support response team. Correct?

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Zoe Korengold

Correct.

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Chet Tschetter

Yeah. All right. And, Lionsgate Academy, what is that?

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Zoe Korengold

What is Lionsgate Academy? That's such a great question. The best place on Earth, like, let's just start with that. Sounds good.

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Zoe Korengold

The best people.

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Zoe Korengold

Yeah. Lionsgate Academy is basically, public charter school. That was tailored specifically for kiddos on the spectrum. But not everybody at Lionsgate is a kid on the spectrum. We've got kids with just different stuff going on. A lot of them are on some form of IEP or like, five. Oh, I think it's called a 5 or 4 plan.

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Zoe Korengold

Okay. So yeah.

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Chet Tschetter

An IEP stands for Individualized Education.

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Zoe Korengold

Educational.

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Chet Tschetter

Plan.

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Zoe Korengold

Yeah.

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Zoe Korengold

You can tell that I'm not really like.

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Zoe Korengold

On the academic side of things.

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Zoe Korengold

So I'm like, well, I know the acronym, but.

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Chet Tschetter

Yeah, we get used to using acronyms. So, I try to make sure that we spell those out whenever possible because I don't always know what people are talking about. I did build that one, though.

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Zoe Korengold

And it's a good thing for like, people who might want to go into this work too, that maybe it's a hard thing to ask, like what is an IEP? What is an acronym? You know, like it's it's stuff. So it's a good thing to clarify.

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Chet Tschetter

That's a good question. What is an IEP?

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Zoe Korengold

An IEP.

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Chet Tschetter

In a nutshell.

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Zoe Korengold

Can be a life saver. To be honest, for a lot of kids, it's like it's not just about academics. It's like about what helps them focus. The great things about them. A lot of case managers and teachers start out by writing the strengths of the students, and things to look forward to. Like if you're reading IEP for a new kid that you might not know.

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Zoe Korengold

A lot of it is just the stuff they're working on in their core subjects and also socially. And for a lot of these kids, an IEP is truly a life saver. Especially if they've had any amount of time without one in school. Those accommodations make a really big difference.

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Chet Tschetter

Yeah, I bet. So it's really that plan that everybody can work from to make sure that you're really supporting the student with the things that they need. And also, as you said, I loved, you know, starting out with the what are that person's strengths? And looking at that rather than looking at any sort of deficits first.

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Zoe Korengold

Yeah, it's really great. Especially since like, my own IEP didn't start out with my strengths, just went right into like, what do you need to work on? What do you need to change? And that had a tremendous effect on me. But reading through these IEPs and feeling like if I handed this to the student, like, the first thing they're gonna do is smile and say, like, wow, these people, like, think these things about me.

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Zoe Korengold

And that's just a really special impact that we can have at Lionsgate, you know?

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Chet Tschetter

And what a piece. Just on thinking about the article is all about kind of that safety and that security for students, psychological well-being. So it starts with that.

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Zoe Korengold

Yeah, it's a lot of little parts and pieces that go into making people feel safe and people feel accepted and welcomed.

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Chet Tschetter

Zoe, tell me about how did you get interested in working with kids on the spectrum or kids who have intellectual disabilities?

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Zoe Korengold

Yeah. I started working at the Autism Society of Minnesota. And I was like, kind of doing a couple of their, like, zoo classes. And then I went to camp and camp hand-in-hand. Solidified for me that, like, not only do I want to do this for a living and be in my community for, like, probably the rest of my life, but also like, wow, I feel welcomed and seen here.

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Zoe Korengold

I feel accepted. And I feel like I'm healing like those parts of myself that were not validated. And I was told to put, you know, to hide away. I felt very seen for the first time in my life. And that really solidified for me like, yep, this is where I belong is with my own people.

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Chet Tschetter

Wow. That camp experience as a camp staff member really made a huge impact on your life, didn't it?

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Zoe Korengold

Yeah, it made me the person I am today.

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Chet Tschetter

That's really, really awesome. Talk a little bit about your education, your training to be in the position you are today.

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Zoe Korengold

Yeah. I feel like to be honest, a lot of my training came from being an autistic kid. And sometimes, like, a lot of the training came from, like, what I learned not to be and what I learned, like, not to do from the people around me who just didn't see me for who I am and wasn't able to validate me as an autistic child.

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Zoe Korengold

So that was like a big learning thing for me. But like when it comes to actual training, I went to the,

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Chet Tschetter

University of Minnesota.

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Zoe Korengold

Yes.

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Chet Tschetter

Okay.

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Zoe Korengold

Twin cities. I got my bachelor's majored in English. A lot of my training comes from camp hand in hand as well. And then when you go to Lionsgate, they do, It's like the NPI, like non.

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Chet Tschetter

Crisis intervention.

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Zoe Korengold

Yes. Nonviolent crisis intervention. They do a lot of that. Which is good.

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Chet Tschetter

Yeah. That's a nationally known course that helps people know how to handle difficult situations in a positive way.

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Zoe Korengold

I feel like everybody should take that course or at least, like, read through the workbook. It's it's really helpful.

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Chet Tschetter

Yeah. There's a lot of positive interventions in there that, really help you think about how to handle situations in a positive way, to really look for what is the outcome that you want, and how is that going to be the safest, not only physically but psychologically for the person who might be having a hard time?

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Zoe Korengold

Yeah, absolutely. And it like, helps you see things very, objectively like, for example, like if you have a student that's very, like, they might have OCD, where they're very defiant. You know, that's kind of the term we use, I guess. It lets you see things objectively for like, okay, if if I'm getting pushback for something, here's a way that I can react that won't like, get me subjectively involved, but instead just lets them know, like, these are the expectations.

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Zoe Korengold

Like it's this is what it is, you know? So it's helpful to, enter through things objectively with that training.

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Chet Tschetter

Okay, cool. So earlier we talked about the, the two teams that you're on. One is the support response team and the other is the crisis team. Can you tell me how they're different and then how they might overlap if they do?

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Zoe Korengold

Yeah, absolutely. They overlap all the time, actually. So the support response team is an on call team, that handles a lot of just like, kind of on call everyday things. This could vary from emotionally supporting a student when they are going through a hard time and might just need space to be able to have the emotions that they have.

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Zoe Korengold

This can be like if students are kind of getting into a verbal conflict in class. Or in a space and kind of getting them apart so that they can have privacy and also have processing time. We're also called for behaviors, such as like if someone is having an emotion and needs to get it out by, getting physical or throwing things or, maybe hitting, you know, those types of behaviors were called for.

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Zoe Korengold

And the crisis team. There's a lot of overlap, because sometimes you'll walk into an article and know immediately that it's a crisis call, or it becomes a crisis call. When you need just more bodies, to help facilitate the situation. So if there is a safety risk, for example, I'm definitely calling the crisis team to help the student.

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Zoe Korengold

That's having a hard time to help the classroom be able to go out of the classroom and relocate. To help follow up with teachers and staff to make sure that they are okay and if they need support wherever they're classes, we help them with that as well. Sometimes if we need to remove dangerous objects from a classroom, I'm definitely calling the crisis team to help me move things out of a class or out of a space.

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Zoe Korengold

So yeah.

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Chet Tschetter

Okay. So when you call the crisis team, and people kind of start arriving, how do you know who's going to do what? Because there's some, like there were lots of moving parts to that. Right? Somebody is going to be with the person who's having a hard time. Maybe more than one person. You're going to have people who are helping folks in the classroom kind of move to a different area, touching base with the teachers and the students, because everybody can be affected emotionally and sometimes physically by a situation where a person has been acting out.

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Zoe Korengold

Yeah. Thankfully the team is very cohesive. So like, and we also really know our kids. So when we walk into a room for a specific student, we usually know what needs to happen. Direct communication also is such a gift. I'm able to say, I need you to get everything out of this room, and they just start doing it, or I need x, y, z, and they go and get it.

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Zoe Korengold

I'm very direct, and I expect the same out of my team members, to tell me exactly what needs to happen. And a lot of it is just learning. Like, watch what other people do. So if there is other crisis team members already on scene and they're and I see them, you know, taking out a table from a room, I know that I'm going to be taking stuff out, too.

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Zoe Korengold

But yeah, it just kind of depends. And usually people are very, very direct, and that's a really good thing to have.

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Chet Tschetter

Yeah, that's got to be really helpful so that, you know, you know what to do. Paying attention to what other people are doing as well. Kind of knowing those basic concepts that we need to make sure the environment is safe. What are some things in there that could be used, in an unsafe way? And how do we make it safe for the person who's having a hard time?

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Chet Tschetter

Right.

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Zoe Korengold

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm really grateful because our team is just like spot on, just wonderful people who have been doing this for a long time. They learn a lot from. And then I can always go to with questions. They're great.

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Chet Tschetter

That's really cool. In your article, you talked about really meeting the student where they are to support their, psychological well-being and mental health. What strategies do you use to get to know this student and identify what they may need to support their, mental health?

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Zoe Korengold

So a lot of the times, students will actually tell you, what they need.

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Chet Tschetter

That's always helpful.

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Zoe Korengold

Which is really cool. Like if they're able to, communicate to me in whatever way that they need space or that they need privacy or that they, would like a song to be played that makes them feel better. Just a number of things. Oftentimes students will tell you what they need. If they can't or if you don't know them very well.

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Zoe Korengold

It's kind of like looking in the toolbox and just being like, do you want to use this tool? You know, for example, like, I might offer a weighted blanket. If someone's having a really hard time and it seems like a good time to ask, I might ask if they want hand squeezes. Or if they want the light stemmed, if they'd like to go to the regulation station, if they just need privacy.

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Zoe Korengold

It's kind of like looking in that toolbox that I know is there, and offering tools and seeing which ones work. And then once we figure out which ones work, we kind of communicate that to the rest of the team so that it's kind of like if Jimmy over here has a hard time again, we know that this, this and this works.

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Zoe Korengold

And that way everybody can also be on the same page for Jimmy.

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Chet Tschetter

Yeah. For sure. And some of the things you mentioned, it made me think about, really, you need to know the kid and kid the person and know what is it that they individually need and respond to, because we know that some people might need more sensory input, like the weighted blanket, or having their hand squeezed and others might need less sensory input, like dimming the lights, or whatever their particular need is.

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Chet Tschetter

You also referenced a, regulation. Help me out here, regulation station. Tell me what that is, please.

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Zoe Korengold

It's such an awesome thing. So, Lionsgate has two regulation stations, also called the rug Station. And inside the rug station, you'll find, like a red swing that really hugs the body tight. You'll find a platform swing, which is really good for just, like, going back and forth. There's a projector that will play, calming music and calming videos.

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Zoe Korengold

There is like, Brillo light thing. There's a lite-brite. There's puzzles.

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Chet Tschetter

What do you mean by lights?

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Zoe Korengold

It's like, It's not. I don't think it's called a Brillo light, actually.

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Zoe Korengold

It's like, you know, that thing that.

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Zoe Korengold

Looks like hair? Like it has a base. And then there's. It looks like these little silver hairs sticking out of it, and they all, light up different colors, and you can kind of, like, put them in a tube with your hand, or you can just, like, feel them. Really good sensory tool. It's like my favorite thing.

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Chet Tschetter

We'll have to look these up. Yes. They sound really cool by one.

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Zoe Korengold

Not sponsored, but they're the best. And it's just it's a great place to get regulated and get it calm again.

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Chet Tschetter

Yeah. Find out or figure out what that kid needs. And they're probably going to be somewhat attracted to that thing. And my guess is they've probably been in at the regulation station and had a chance when they're calm to kind of pick things out and know what's in there. Is that is that be accurate?

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Zoe Korengold

Yeah, we definitely try to get kids in there like a lot of SRT is job too is to do a lot of like, Kind of like,

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Zoe Korengold

I want to say like preliminary. I don't know if that's the right word, but basically, like, help kids stay regulated before things get to like, level 4 or 5 type of situation or before they get dysregulated, basically. So part of that is like going on a walk or going to the station, and they might just need like a break in general.

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Zoe Korengold

Like they're not feeling necessarily dysregulated, but they might just need a break. And the right station is a really good place to go to, like, figure out what they like and what will help them and for them to figure out what they like and what will help them.

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Chet Tschetter

All right. Let's talk a little bit about you used a couple terms. Feeling regulated or dysregulated. Tell us a little bit more. Kind of define that for us.

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Zoe Korengold

I kind of have,

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Zoe Korengold

Feelings about the terms regulated and dysregulated. I think it's often better to refer to the actual emotion that's going on. But in academics especially, we use the terms dysregulated and regulated a lot. Regulated basically means like calm and ready to learn. From what I can.

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Chet Tschetter

That makes.

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Zoe Korengold

Sense. Yeah. Your body is calm. Your mind is calm. You're not feeling too fast or not feeling too slow. You're feeling just like just a quote unquote, and dysregulated. Which is where I kind of get, like, feelings about it, because, like, dysregulated can mean a plethora of thing is it's kind of like an ambiguous term in my opinion.

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Zoe Korengold

It can mean that you're really angry and maybe you're throwing things. It can mean that your body is moving too fast and, you're kind of, like, not able to sit still. It can mean that you're joking around too much and you're not able to listen, and you're not able to concentrate. It can be a number of things, but just basically, like in a state where you're not ready to be calm and ready to learn.

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Chet Tschetter

Pretty much. Okay, that's super helpful. The other terms you used were level four and level five. I'm assuming those are terms that you use in a school. What do you mean by those?

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Zoe Korengold

So the levels are kind of out like quote unquote outdated. Or at least our occupational therapists have been working on, like, instead of saying you're at a four, say that you're anxious. Or instead of saying you're at a level five, you can say that you're furious. I use it for myself personally, because sometimes as an autistic person, when I'm feeling dysregulated, it is very helpful for me to say to someone immediately, I'm at a level 4 or 5, I need to bounce.

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Zoe Korengold

When I don't have the words or when I just don't want to tell somebody like I'm feeling furious. It's like an easier way for me to access what I need. But I also do understand, like, you know, if our kids go to an employer in a couple of years and say, I'm a four, their employer is not going to necessarily like, understand.

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Zoe Korengold

But like a four is kind of like where you're teetering on being out of control. In that type of state. And a level five is where you feel out of control of your body or like, your emotions.

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Chet Tschetter

All right. So those those levels kind of there's a kind of a definition for that. And it helps kids identify like where they're at and how they can express to someone else where they're at. Yeah. At least in the school setting they're in currently. Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, thanks. That's super helpful. One of the other things you kind of touched on and I like to think about or I thought about when we, did the interview for your article is, I think one of the most important intervention strategies is often skipped.

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Chet Tschetter

And that's the debriefing after a situation has occurred. And it can be hard to get back to that for a number of reasons, especially in a school or if you're working in a group home or employment setting. Because things move along quickly. Not to mention there's often big feelings about what happened, and you really have to kind of wait until everybody has, kind of calmed down and everybody's ready to talk about it.

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Chet Tschetter

Can you tell me, like, how do you all handle that? And why, I guess more is, you know, talk about the importance of the debrief and how do you think students really benefit from that?

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Zoe Korengold

Yeah. Debriefs are very beneficial for our students because it's not only like a, a space to debrief about what happened and how you felt, and get clarification, but also to clarify, like, what do we do next? So at least at Lionsgate in our crisis team, we'll start by asking everybody how they're doing. Going through the facts of what happened, what people decided to do, how they felt, what was hard, in those situations.

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Zoe Korengold

And what do we do now? And that's very helpful to be able to plan for the future, basically. Like, okay, this happened. We need a different plan or what strategies worked. What didn't work. Who needs to be communicated with that type of thing? Debriefs are very important for not only kind of having closure on what happened, but also opening the door to make a better future for our students or for our staff.

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Chet Tschetter

Pretty much. Yeah. I totally agree with you on that. Also, in your article, you reminded people that they're not alone and they should find support from others in the organization and who can help them with the strategies. Provide training, whatever support people need. You encourage them to work closely with the person who's being supported to learn how they really want to be supported when they're in a bad space, or when they're, you know, having a difficult time.

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Chet Tschetter

Tell us more about this. And why do you think it's so important? Zoe?

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Zoe Korengold

I think if you're not able to feel safe within yourself, it's really hard to help other people feel safe. And that's why it's really important to have those core people, wherever you are working in this particular, like, position, I guess. That, you know, you can come to them at any time with like, hey, I am feeling this about this and I need to talk about it.

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Zoe Korengold

To be able to have closure on it. That's very important. So that you can feel safe and that that feeling doesn't compound and start, kind of branching into new calls and new crisises that you're going to take. So that support is very important. And when we have that support for each other, it's easier to mirror it for our students as well.

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Zoe Korengold

And it's easier for us to collaborate on what's best for our students.

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Chet Tschetter

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Do you have any final words of encouragement or wisdom to share with the listeners?

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Zoe Korengold

I think that everybody should know that the kids who are the toughest who give you, quote unquote, the hardest time or are like the quote unquote, quote unquote problem kids are really like the best kids in the world. They are the best and the most charismatic, the most multidimensional souls. And they've been through a lot of things that also like give them a totally different perspective to everything.

00;26;35;22 - 00;27;07;06

Zoe Korengold

And I wish that more people could see that and approach them the way that I see them and the way that my team sees them. Because that's ultimately what they deserve. And I've seen these kids who come into Lionsgate with, you know, this past of people not believing in them and feeling alienated, and they just flourish when we allow them to flourish, when we allow them to be who they are and see them for who they are.

00;27;07;09 - 00;27;37;00

Zoe Korengold

And I encourage everyone like, try to see your students or your clients, not as your client or your student, but for who they are individually and outside of this structure. Who are they and who are they going to be? Because a lot of what we do right now is going to create the person that's going to just completely evolve and transform and show us, like the magic that's been there all along.

00;27;37;06 - 00;27;54;04

Zoe Korengold

You know, and that's like my favorite part of this job as being able to do that. And knowing that little Zoe deserve that too. And little Zoe gets that now. You know, but, yeah, I guess that's my parting words.

00;27;54;07 - 00;28;15;22

Chet Tschetter

Thank you so much, Zoe. This is just been a pleasure. Visiting with you and learning more from you and the joy that you have for the work that you do. It's just contagious. So, Thank you. Thank you so much. Not only for being a two time author, but now also being a podcaster with us. We really appreciate it.

00;28;15;24 - 00;28;17;12

Zoe Korengold

Yeah, it was wonderful. Thanks for having me.

00;28;17;19 - 00;28;49;19

Chet Tschetter

Absolutely. And thank you to the listeners for tuning in today. We appreciate you. And we can you can find other episodes of this podcast as well as another podcast called Health Matters, for direct support on your favorite podcast streaming services. Thanks again Zoe and have a great day.