Episode 12: Exactly When He Wanted: David Liscomb’s Path to a Fulfilling Retirement

Chet Tschetter

Hi, my name is Chet Tschetter, and I'll be your host for A Closer Look, where we'll explore the most current and relevant topics covered in Frontline Initiative, which is a magazine produced by the National Alliance for Direct Support Professionals in partnership with the University of Minnesota's Institute on Community Integration. If you're wondering what Frontline initiative is all about, it's about the work that direct support professionals do on a day to day basis as they support people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.

Chet Tschetter

I'll be talking to authors and taking a closer look at current practices, tools, and resources. So buckle up and let's hear what the authors have to say.

Chet Tschetter

Welcome, everybody. We're so excited to have our guests here today. The the frontline initiative issue that we're talking about today was on supporting people as they age. And today we have three very special guests with us. And I'm going to let them introduce themselves. Starting with you, David.

David Liscomb

Okay. My name is David Liscomb. I have my own apartment over on Superior Street. It's part of Kelsey Creek Apartments. I've been there since nineteen ninety three. I was a IRA by JRC, for about ten years. And then I went into support of apartments, and then I was finally ready to move on my own into, my own apartment.

David Liscomb

And I really like it there.

Chet Tschetter

I bet you do. What city do you live in?

David Liscomb

Watertown, New York. Okay.

Chet Tschetter

Thank you. Michelle, will you go next, please?

Michelle Leo

Yep. My name is Michelle Leo. I live in Watertown, New York, and I am a staff development educator for the Jefferson Saint Lawrence. I worked here for almost twenty seven years.

Chet Tschetter

Oh, just a little, little time. What do you do in that particular position?

Michelle Leo

I train, new staff that come into our agency. I am a local admin for our national academy through and DSP. I oversee the College of Direct Support. A little bit of everything. A lot of persons that are training.

Chet Tschetter

Yeah, you do a lot of different things. What's your experience? Did you start as a DSP?

Michelle Leo

Yup. I started out as a DSP in, residential at a residential site, and then I went to they have and I was in Dayton for sixteen years, and then I switched to self development to do what I'm doing now.

Chet Tschetter

Okay. They have, can you day habilitation.

Michelle Leo

And location program? Yeah.

Chet Tschetter

And what is that like for listeners who may not know?

Michelle Leo

It's a program that, people visit or attend Monday through Friday while they're there. They do a lot of volunteer activities. Meals on wheels, food pantry, volunteering, whatever. Volunteering. They're interested in, and some fun stuff. Also going out to, like our parks and out to lunch, bowling.

Chet Tschetter

Some fun activities out and about. Great. You've you've had quite the career. And then, John, would you introduce yourself, please?

John Leo

My name is John Leo, and I also work for the, Jefferson and Saint Lawrence. Our agency. My job title is incident management coordinator, which is related to, investigations and things. But I'm also the advisor on that local self advocacy group, the North Country Self-advocates. And I've worked for the agency for twenty five years, and I've been the advisor of the self advocacy group for twenty years.

Chet Tschetter

Wow.

John Leo

That's that's the best part of my job by far.

Chet Tschetter

Much more fun than, doing the detective work on different incidents that occur. But I'm sure you do a very good job with that, too.

John Leo

Thank you. Yes. I enjoy being the advisor of the North Country Self advocates. It's got me. It's got me involved in the community through the people I support. And it's it's, opened my eyes to a lot of barriers and things that adults with, I'd face every hour of every day and how to break the barriers down.

John Leo

Working as a group.

Chet Tschetter

Yeah. Anything else you would tell us about the North Country Self Advocate group? Like how many members are there? What are some of the goals?

John Leo

I like David tell a start and then I'll kick off. David why don't you tell chat about the origins of our group.

David Liscomb

I started in nineteen ninety five. I had gone to a national self advocacy meeting, and then I went with Steve Homes, and I was, the New York State Self Advocacy Association's board of directors, and I was their tenth president.

David Liscomb

And then, I came back and it was decided by Holly Garner, our, director of the of the art that I should be, a self advocacy, a liaison. And lo and behold, I ended up becoming a, Self advocate. I'm trying to think of the right word, but, I would have so much duties and the most important parts of it, and so I, I was under John Lee as, the ambassador, if you will, to the, to the board and to the agency.

David Liscomb

And my job was to file all the things that needed to be filed. Right. Stages. Help advocates to better themselves, to feel good about themselves, that kind of thing. And so, I was kind of the advocate always, and I had that for almost four years. 4 or 5 years. And then I retired and, the only reason I retired is because my heart felt with my heart the way it was.

David Liscomb

I recovered from a heart attack and I was getting weak. And so he thought I should retire two years early. So I did. But I had never given up on self advocacy as something that I have a lot of enjoyment doing. I like talking to people like you. I like sharing information.

John Leo

The North Country Self Advocates were founded by David and four of his friends in nineteen ninety five.

John Leo

Now our membership is about fourty five Self-advocates right. And we meet regularly. And and David serves as an inspiration to everybody during the meetings.

Chet Tschetter

Yeah, that sounds really great and a lot of hard work. But as you said, David, it's so important that the voice of Self-advocates are heard.

David Liscomb

I was the one that got rid of that R-word. I worked under Governor Patterson also, and, part time and I decided that our word ought to go. And so I have a picture on my wall of me signing the name change bill with him, and I really was, inspired. But I think what was really important to me that day was that at the Capitol, when I went up to sign and there was a guy standing next to me who had gone to school with me, came, you just heard of him?

David Liscomb

And he now works for the Office of People with Developmental Disability, and he doesn't want that word in there either. And he'll put his hands up over his head, clap the hands of the caregiver.

David Liscomb

I don't want to hear that word.

John Leo

I am a little bit more on that.

Chet Tschetter

Yeah. Yeah, I know Chester, and I don't doubt that at all. He is a wonderful advocate.

John Leo

So in New York State, in the state of New York, services for people with disabilities used to be funneled through the New York State Department of Health through something called the office for mental. And Developmental Disabilities. But that R-word infuriated the Self-advocates so much that they pressured the New York state government. Back in about two thousand twelve to change the name from oh Didi to Opw Didi, which stands for the office for people with Developmental Disabilities.

John Leo

But it took a state law to be enacted. And David's right. He had just a couple other people standing right next to Governor Patterson when Governor Patterson signed that bill into law. And it was a lot of hard work by the South, advocates around the state to push the state and to make them realize how offensive the R-word was.

Chet Tschetter

Yeah. And that wasn't that long ago that you did that. And I'm so grateful for you for doing it. I would love to see, I'd love to see a photo of that photo, if you guys wouldn't mind sharing it.

Michelle Leo

I think I have one, I can send it to you. Think I took it the day that, I interviewed David. I took a picture about as well.

John Leo

Yeah, I didn't I have not yet. We still have it. Yeah. And Chester fits in that photo also. Yeah. Go ahead.

Chet Tschetter

Oh, great. Thank you. Thanks for letting me know that, David. That is incredibly important.

David Liscomb

It also inspired the, disability awareness. Which we have, I made during the year that we actually celebrate that. And, I'm finding now that with information that I have, I feel like, almost like a camera because I'm all over the place, and it's a good feeling. I, I know that one person asked me about three months ago.

David Liscomb

Give me that. Aren't you alone? I said no, I have a roommate. Where I don't see them. I said, look on my wall, my Lord Jesus as my great legislation, my friend Chris. And you know, I just feel like, I mean, when I don't have time to be alone, lonely.

Chet Tschetter

That's great. Before you retired, you were obviously very involved with advocacy, but I also heard that you were on the DSP board of directors at some point.

David Liscomb

Yes, I was for five years. I really enjoyed it. The new DSP. I found that it gave me a lot of. Information, but it also helped me with what I already know to make it better. But then I got to the point where I wanted to make it better for other people and share it.

David Liscomb

And so, this last year, I was a guest of Joel Person, who's executive director and I had the best roommate there. Oh.

Chet Tschetter

Was it? Was it John? Leo?

David Liscomb

Yeah. Hi, John. Yeah. Leo. So he was a great help to me. The only thing I did not have a role in that was, What's the word I'm looking for? It wasn't offered more for a person like me, but John was very, very helpful. Very polite, very understanding. And we just did our thing anyway. And I don't believe that we did a show company.

David Liscomb

I used to enjoy that.

Chet Tschetter

So, Michelle, how are. I understand how David and John are connected, but, Michelle, how are you connected to these two guys?

Michelle Leo

John and I are married. We work for the same agency with different departments, with John being the advisor of our country. Self-advocates. I help him with his self-advocacy meetings and attending conferences. And that's how I got to know a lot of the self-advocates that I didn't work with in DeKalb. And just being around David, all the many years that I've been around them was how I got to know David and support him.

Michelle Leo

The little that I do, mostly as John supporting David. David's my friend. So we hang out that way right?

Chet Tschetter

Nice. What a good friend to have.

Michelle Leo

Definitely.

Chet Tschetter

And Michelle, I'm going to go back to you. You're the person who wrote the article with, you know, David and John's help. But will you tell the listeners about the article and what you learned or realized when you were writing it?

Michelle Leo

I knew it was going to be hard capturing David. I knew, you know, everything that David had already done. Prior to his retirement. But I didn't know a lot about the planning stages. So I learned a lot talking to John and David together. And John will tell you about that, I'm sure. But I knew David is.

Michelle Leo

He's a great self-advocate, and I. I knew that he knew what he wanted to do when he retired and speak up for himself and to do what he wanted to do. And I knew, like I said, it was going to be hard. Capturing David being the great man that he was. And I thought, I'm not going to be on.

Michelle Leo

I think I even said in your I wouldn't be able to do business. But I just saw a different part of David, part that I didn't know leading up to his retirement. And just, you know, he had a planned out. He knew what he wanted to do and what he didn't want to do. And he and John talked about that and made that happen.

Chet Tschetter

Yeah.

Chet Tschetter

Thanks. Thanks, Michelle. Let's talk about that. David, how did you approach your plans for retirement, and how did John support you with that?

David Liscomb

Well, when I realized that I was planning on retiring, John and I sat down, and I talked with him a little bit about things that I wanted to do, what I felt I really. Well, the thing things, you know, that were really important to me and I ended up wanting to become a mechanic. Has then the Catholic Church because, I am Roman Catholic.

David Liscomb

And so I went to school in my dioceses about network and, not the hospital, but the, the city of Pittsburgh and, I was able to finish I took four courses only to learn that I was in two thousand two. I was the teacher of the year. So I learned today from my supervisor. I just came from there teaching, and I found out that I have been chosen if my choose to go to Steubenville, Ohio, because the Franciscan Theological Seminary, to take a couple courses and then I would finish up.

David Liscomb

And so I told my supervisor, I think about it, but I, I really would like to. So that was good news. But, they also offer it in other areas too. So we'll see what happens with that.

Chet Tschetter

But so is that role that teacher of catechism or what do you do in that role?

David Liscomb

It's it's teaching people with developmental disabilities and people like myself to know about God, to know about their spiritual world and, the way that we're doing it now. We have gone from like five people to 35. And I think part of it is because our agency agreed to let them use our facilities, and we have this big room that we're in, and then they have other little areas where they can do our projects.

David Liscomb

And I mean, even believe me, believe it or not, I'm teaching our we have a place where you do that work thing and, so that's one of my interests. Yeah. One of the thing I like to do is I like to go shopping or eat out once in a while. I like to go downtown and just browse around.

David Liscomb

I, I've gone from a computer to an iPad and found that iPad has helped me a great deal. And so I feel very good with that.

Chet Tschetter

Sounds good. Sounds like you're doing a lot of the things that you would like to do in your retirement. John, can you talk about when you were supporting David to kind of come up with his plan? What that process was like? And, yeah. How you how you guys did that?

John Leo

Sure. So being David's, friend and I was a supervisor. David's last role at our agency, he was employed as a, full time self-advocacy consultant. So we paid him to do self advocacy work about 15 hours a week. And he would, you know, email and advocate, but at the state and national level and things like that and, and, you know, sixty three, sixty four and he came to me one day and said, John, you know, between my pacemaker and my health, I don't want to overdo it.

John Leo

I think I'd like to stop. So I said, Dave, are you giving me your notice? And he said, yeah, I think I am. So at that time, David live, independently, with no supports, no outside help. No, no DSP or coming into his house. It's just was mostly natural supports at that time. So I went over to his apartment one day with a piece of paper, and we just sat and talked and had coffee together.

John Leo

And I said, David, after you're done working it, you know, let's consider this how your income may be reduced and what and you're active on so many different boards. What do you want to scale back so you can slow down. So we talked about which boards he wanted to remain on and which ones he wanted to resign from.

John Leo

And we talked. We we looked at his budget together. And then he brought in a few other people to look at his budget and, and where he maybe could cut spending because his income might be reduced a little. And we just, we had a long talk. And then after that, every week we would talk about it more before he actually did retire.

John Leo

And, David wanted to pursue something called self-directed services. Yeah. And he hired his own staff and interviewed a few staff, and and the his staff. Virginia has been with him now. How long has she been with you, David? She has been with me for seven years. Seven years on the twentieth of March. Eight years in March.

John Leo

So we want to make sure I, like David and I together, wanted to make sure he was safe in his home to remain living independently. And to do that, he needed a little bit more help as he age. So we talked about that. And, and, we implemented the plan and it's working out great. You know what?

John Leo

Couple of things David said in an initial meeting is he didn't want to sit around all day in a day habilitation program or organized or in a nursing home setting, or a senior citizen setting. He wanted to be, activism in his community, but on his own timetable, and that was important. So we made sure he wasn't enrolled in any program that the anything he did was on his terms.

John Leo

And he's kept it that way for ten, ten, twelve years now. And I'm finding even with the new medical condition that I have, listening to my physical therapist has helped me a great deal. And I'm able to live with arthritis, even though it can be very painful. I can smile. I can do anything I want to do.

David Liscomb

I just have to find other ways of doing that. I remember from those early meetings that we had planning David's retirement, that remaining independent in his own home was a priority. And it went. And he still. David, do you mind, telling us how old you are? I turned seventy nine on September sixth, and they didn't think I was going to live to be four.

John Leo

So for a seventy nine year old adult with, I'd still be living independently with no one living with them and as minimal support. We're just very, very proud of David for leading the way and showing other people how you how it can be done. The only thing I fear a little bit, but I'm not worried about it. I'm not going to let it get in my way.

David Liscomb

As I get pointed out the other day at a eye exam and I have retinitis pigmentosa and there's no cure for that, and I've lost one eye. My right eye is now totally blind. My left eye I have twenty over four hundred vision which is very poor, but I do have Braille. And so I decided I want to take a course in certified braille to be a certified braille, which, well, it took me three tries to do.

David Liscomb

And the third time Mrs. Daw and, National Light for Braille at the International library there in Washington, D.C., in the Library of Congress. So, David, I have the passion for toleration. You've got a 98 on your exam, but also your attitude and the way that you handled yourself was great and did not give up. I'm going to you.

David Liscomb

And so I was given two Braille books that I was despairing. I sent them back and she sent them back to me, telling me, no, they're yours. You earned them. And so now I have on.

Chet Tschetter

Congratulations. You know, I think Braille would be hard to learn, but I'm really I'm really impressed that, you know, it all.

David Liscomb

Kind of who my hair is is Helen Keller. I have the movie, the story of my life by Helen Keller. And I didn't know that she wrote the book, and I was very impressed with her and that she had a difficult childhood because she didn't let that stop her. And so I, I was very impressed.

Chet Tschetter

Yeah. She's quite a woman. She was very determined. Since you kind of originally made the plan and in the pre-planning when you talked about that, that really struck me as it's such an important piece of, you know, talking about what our finances going to look like, what you know, what what do you have available, and are things going to change financially?

Chet Tschetter

But then also, who are your people resources. What are those natural supports you're going to continue to have? And what are those things you you want to continue to do? Sometimes I think, there's some assumptions that, especially for people with disabilities, that they'll just sit home and do nothing. And that is not how life should be or has to be.

Chet Tschetter

So I'm really glad, David, that you're talking about this and sharing your story about how active you are. And, I gosh, being seventy nine and being so active is just really, inspiring.

David Liscomb

Well, I have team meetings with my counselor. Twice a year, sometimes a little more, and I have chosen John as my person option or who comes to my meetings, and he is allowed to take part in the meeting. I also have Jane and my dad. He doesn't. My phone. And what I do is I talk about what I want, and, and and I don't think I talk on this yet, but I'm going to,

David Liscomb

At every meeting, they would read my past, and I finally had, and, flashback, if you know what that is. And I couldn't handle it. And I started to cry and I really was upset and I said, I don't want to be a hermit anymore. I've heard that all my life. I can't live it anymore. And I left the room and that was enough for them to decide as a team that that was not healthy for me, that I needed to move on with my life.

David Liscomb

I wanted it can be positive. And I said, when you read a blog, don't you read a chapter as I go on to the next? That's what I want to do. And that impressed the team somewhat. That's what Lori made. She took it out of context so that I don't have any error anymore. If they want to read it that's fine.

David Liscomb

But I don't want.

Chet Tschetter

Good for you for speaking up and telling them super important. John, what would you say? Excuse me. David, what would you say to other people who are thinking about retiring? And they just they don't know what to do or where to start. What would you advise them to do?

David Liscomb

Are you talking to me or. John? You.

Chet Tschetter

You first. You first. David.

David Liscomb

First of all, I would hope that they would have some kind of a plan in mind before they retired so that they weren't idle and bored. And then, second, don't be afraid to talk to those that you trust. People that are staff. Like, I don't like to a lot of confidence in Michelle. And so I would talk to Michelle and tell her how I felt and that I would listen.

David Liscomb

But I wanted to make sure that.

David Liscomb

What I was planning made sense, and I found that.

David Liscomb

I would rather do that than.

David Liscomb

Try to just sit around and, do anything. And I'm not a person to sit in front of the radio or TV all day. I'd rather be doing stuff. And so I find stuff to do. And, I just find life very interesting. Even if I go on take a walk alone or, you know, something like that. And I've made friends where I live, and, they accept me as a person, and I just feel that that's the way I feel about the way that my life has, grown.

David Liscomb

And I'm very happy to be here.

Chet Tschetter

Yeah. Thank you. Michelle or John, what would you add if if you knew somebody was, thinking about retiring? What would you advise them?

David Liscomb

I would try to listen to what they said, and I would give them good advice, hoping that they would take it. Explain why I felt that way. Yeah. And encourage them to try new things. If it were to say it didn't work and they wanted something different. Well, I would say to them, well, try it first. If it works, fine, if it doesn't, at least you tried it and you knew that maybe it wasn't for you.

Chet Tschetter

Good advice. Good advice. I'm going to pass that same question to Michelle and John.

Michelle Leo

I would say something very similar as to what David just said. Listen to what the person wants, what they want their future to look like. And I would ask them and hope for them that they had somebody like John who could help them plan what they wanted to do next.

John Leo

I would tell that person to think about to, to, ask their support team to think about things that didn't occur to them. Two things that I worry about, David, in retirement are loneliness and safety in the home. So, if I don't talk to David, you know, regularly, at least once a week to make sure that he's safe and not lonely.

John Leo

Somebody else would. For example, I was out of town for a couple of weeks. I would talk to maybe one of my friends and say, hey, could you just by giving David a call on a Tuesday afternoon or Tuesday night? Just a just a chat with him for a few minutes. And also, I, every time I talk to David now and even prior to retirement, I always ask him about, are you, have you had any falls or are you things that happened in his apartment when no one is there about him?

John Leo

I want to know what you know. I'm curious to. Yeah, I you know, you're sleeping. Okay. Things that no one would know about him. I just want to. I always make sure that he's engaged and and, letting me know how he's feeling. I know he has a full time ESB to to worry about that, but as a natural support, I and his friend, I want to hear it from him.

John Leo

Not just from people that are paid to support him.

Chet Tschetter

Yeah, yeah. Since you made kind of an original kind of retirement plan, do you guys reassess it on a regular basis or talk about it, kind of make those tweaks? And how does that all work?

John Leo

Well, when David first retired, he wanted to pull back from pretty much everything except for being on the board of directors of our local agency. And he remained on the board of directors of our local independent living center. And and that's what he did. He pulled back from all the boards the need activity and a lot of self advocacy activity in Albany.

John Leo

David. You know, he just slowed down. But curiously, just about five years ago, David, we we did reassess. And David said, you know, I think I'd like to start going to conferences again like I used to. Yeah. So we, we we did, we went to we went to Atlanta and then Cleveland and then Buffalo. And we had David.

John Leo

Here's what he reengage with, with his friend Joel Embiid. And he stayed in touch with with with Joel. And yeah. And so yes we we reassessed and and and and now he's doing more than he did initially in retirement.

Chet Tschetter

Yeah. So when you say you went to Cleveland and you went to Buffalo, those were the NAD DSP conferences.

Chet Tschetter

Correct.

John Leo

And David went as a guest of Joel to to Cleveland, Ohio, to attend Ads-b, National Conference and then to Buffalo. Just a few months ago, I think David restored the ball during the Atlanta Conference. But, I was up and, how did it feel? Gordon was conference as David.

Michelle Leo

It felt very good.

David Liscomb

The first one that I went to in Buffalo was a lot different than the one I just came from, but it was because my Aunt Colleen load in Buffalo, and she happened to be at home that time and had learned that was coming to Buffalo. And so my dad sent her a picture of me because she'd never seen me going in pictures and said, David's going to be there looking for, you know.

David Liscomb

Well, they told me they had planning and brought me and told me that you're going to have a special guest at the board, watch for. And I thought, oh, I'm gonna buy me a watch or something. They don't know. Oh, all I did is have to hear her voice. And I knew where she was. So I ran down the.

Michelle Leo

Aisle, actually, and.

David Liscomb

I ran over to her and hugged her and that was a blessing. That was conference. That was not, not what conference she was at for that, that early. That was the New York State self-advocacy conference. Yes. State conference. Many years ago, before I knew you. Actually, it was a national one. It was a national. It was a save, wasn't it?

John Leo

Yeah. So I saved Self-advocates becoming Empowered. It was a national national self-advocacy conference many years ago.

David Liscomb

It was really touching to me because.

Michelle Leo

I never heard.

Michelle Leo

That story.

David Liscomb

I just felt so illuminated. And in fact, I talked with her yesterday. And she goes on trips a lot. She she hasn't given up. She goes on trips. And, she used to be a counselor for, the developmentally disabled in Massachusetts. It's called, advocate empowered. And it's a really good agency. I went there one and met the executive director, and he and, I really was fascinated by all I learned.

Chet Tschetter

So what what a great experience. I'm so glad you got to connect with her in that way and that she's still in your life. David, could you tell me? Because we were hoping that, there are direct support professionals or DSPs who are listening to this podcast. What are the things that, you know, Michelle and John do as your friends that really help support you to live out your retirement the way you want to live it?

David Liscomb

Well, the thing with John is if you see something that click the governmental or, you know, maybe not the best, he in a nice way was just looking at it a different way. He doesn't discourage me. He encourages me to try new things. I have found that, like I said, I don't really have time for me because I feel that I'm busy enough, and sometimes I find music to be very helpful to me.

David Liscomb

I love listening to the radio. I have a tape player. I enjoy different things. And, I just find that the way that I live really helps me like a new show. And so I just feel good about.

Chet Tschetter

It that's a great analogy. I'm glad your new suit fits you well.

Chet Tschetter

John and Michelle, what tips you have for DSPs who are maybe newer to the field and haven't supported someone to kind of start their start looking at retirement or in retirement? What tips would you give them?

Michelle Leo

With everything, all the work that, DSP does with anybody else, just listen to them, what they want and what they don't want and, just be there for support and help them get the things and achieve the things that they want to do. That might not be a comfortable conversation, but you're their support person, so listen to them and see what they want to do and try to make that happen for them.

Chet Tschetter

Thanks, Michelle.

John Leo

I think retirement is something that a person achieves, and it's a it's like the, the pot at the end of the rainbow. So if I were a, I knew what a DSP or DSP was, but in a field for a long time, I would remind them to, to personalize the conversations with the older adult that you're supporting and, understand that this should be all services should be person centered, but retirement should really be about a person and what what they really what the person expects out of the last, you know, twenty or thirty years of their life, what they want to do and the place they want to do it.

John Leo

A DSP supporting, an adult that possibly lives in a group home or an IRA, and that person goes to a day program or is employed is different than then when the DSP is supporting maybe someone that's not as active. So the DSP should maybe think about how they interact with their own grandparent or how they interact with their own, adult older adult family members.

John Leo

And there's translate that to the person they're supporting. I would also suggest to the DSP to be even more focused on things like health care and safety, because health care and safety are more important to, to a person in their seventies than they are to a person when they're in their thirties or forties.

Chet Tschetter

So this question is for all three of you. Is there anything else that you would want the listeners, direct support professionals and frontline supervisors to know, or to think about when it comes to retirement and, and aging, really, you know, what's important for, for them to keep in mind?

John Leo

I would encourage the idea, if you're supporting an adult that's going into retirement or is in a write in, has already retired, I would just sell the DSP or the support person to listen, be aware of any, mild changes in, ambulation or look out for injuries that that maybe the person doesn't know how they receive, how they got the injury.

John Leo

Just saying. Just be, you know, aware of, any small changes in the person. Make sure that they still don't need any extra supports because for all we know, they may need more supports. And come March or sometime in the middle of next year. So you just gotta always pay attention to the person and make sure they're still enjoying their retirement.

Chet Tschetter

Yeah, and say something when you see those changes happening. Because as we get older, our bodies do change. And there might be areas where we need support, as you said, might maybe three months from now that we don't need today. And sometimes the DSP is the person, oftentimes they're the person who sees it, sees that change.

Chet Tschetter

So communicating it and and making sure the person gets the supports they need is really super important.

John Leo

Yes.

Michelle Leo

Same thing. Like similar to what John said, what I said earlier, just listen to the person who provides support to see what it is that they want in the future from their retirement and support them in that. And if you are the person who are retiring, you deserve to be enjoying your retirement. So make sure you speak up and say what it is you really want to do and what you want it to look like.

Michelle Leo

Like David did. Have a plan and speak up for yourself. Advocate for yourself what you want that to look like and make sure it happens.

Chet Tschetter

Yeah, because it's your life.

John Leo

You don't ever be in a hurry. Things take longer with older people and that's okay. That's it. That has nothing to do with having a disability or being visually impaired. All of us do. So maybe a young DSP or a middle aged DSP should understand things move slower whether you're early or seventies. So and that's okay.

Chet Tschetter

And that's okay. That's natural. Yeah. And what I would say to that is if you can go back to the issue of frontline initiative on supporting people as they age, there are several stories that, DSP share about how they are supporting people as they get older. And many of them have served people for many years. And they talk about some of those nuances that they've seen and how they've adapted.

Chet Tschetter

I'm particularly thinking of the story that Tom Heaton wrote about supporting a man in his retirement and as he got older. But there are other stories as well. So thank you very much, everybody. This was really fun to talk with you. And, gosh, maybe we'll do another interview in a year or so just to see how David's doing.

Michelle Leo

Good. Thank you, thank you.

John Leo

I'd be up for that. What about you, David? Would you be up for, revisit in in a year or so? Sure.

Chet Tschetter

Thanks for joining the conversation. If you would like to reproduce all or part of this podcast, please email frontline-dsp@umn.edu.

Pete McCauley

Our show is co-produced at the University of Minnesota's Institute on Community Integration by Frontline Initiative coeditor Chet Tschetter and ICI technical Director Pete McCauley. Skyler Mihajlov is our editor. Graphic designers are Connie Burkhart and Sarah Curtner. For more information on the Institute on Community Integration and all of our products and projects, please visit ici.umn.edu.